Select Fire 9mmPAK models

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Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Fight Designer on Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:08 am

This really is the most exciting new development in blank guns going on in this country right now. Frankly, the models that have come out so far all leave something to be desired, but if they prove legally and financially successful, one can hope that better models will follow.

So far we have:

The Jackal
Beretta 92 style pistol by Voltral Eckol with semi or full auto options. Available in the US so far only as a top-venting version. I've got one in black, and while I haven't played with it much yet, it worked fine when I test fired it.

Apparently Youtube embedded videos don't work with this forum software, but here's the link:
Jackal on YouTube


The Asi
Strange uzi-esque beast, also available only as top venting in the US. Made by the same folks as the Jackal (have I mentioned how confusing it is that there's two companies in Turkey making blank guns under the name 'Voltran'?).
Kennedy International Enterprises recently posted some pictures of it disassembled, and damned if they (Voltran) didn't just stick a cheap looking plastic shell over the Jackal. Wish you could buy just the shell and grips and maybe whatever else you'd need to convert, so you could have two-guns-in-one.
Here's the pictures


You can see where they added a tube to redirect the top vent as well. Apparently the extended barrel is actually attached to the gun, not the frame- which has me thinking about M93r style Jackals, but maybe that's just me. I'm disappointed that the forward grip isn't detachable, that it doesn't look like any real gun in use today, and that it looks so cheaply made... but since they throw in a free extended mag most places, and that alone runs almost $50, I'm still a little tempted.

Asi on YouTube



The MP5K "Blow Crazy"
(Who the heck names these things?)
Worse looking replica than readily available $20 airsoft guns... wish I knew why they (Voltran 'Blow') did that.
Still, it has the advantage of at least sortof looking like a model that's in demand. As far as I know, not available yet in the US (as of 1/10/08), and will be more expensive than either of the other two when it comes out.

'Blow' on YouTube


For more of my thoughts on these, check a recent FightDesigner blog entry.
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  claymore on Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:21 pm

I have the blow mp5 and the 92,i have to say that at first glance the mp5 is dire to say the least but it does grow on you. i have taken this model apart and it is simply a case that goes around the blow 92. take out the screws and the 1 pin around the front site and the case comes apart in 2 peices, inside is a 92 with a cut down grip, the select levers on the outside of the case simply push the safety come selector forwards and back.
Although the model close up does not cut it, at a distance it looks fine and when you fire it you tend to forget it does not look that good. a problem though, mine has stopped firing full auto its as if the hammer no longer has enough power to set off the 2nd round, single rounds on double action work fine but thats it having taken the gun aprt the only thing i can think of is that something is lodged in the frame that prevents the hammer falling with enough power to detonate the primer but as yet i have not been able to get the slide off to check inside the gun.
The 92 on its own is a joy and loads of fun fires rounds great, full auto bursts no problem (just need an extended mag or 2 now though cant get them over here anymore).
So cant say i would reccomend the mp5 (although it is cheap) but the 92 is a great model and loads of fun

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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Rick on Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:29 pm

As I may have mentioned elsewhere, when I got my ASI Uzi, I started to wonder if the mfr. wasn't just "wrapping" Jackals in plastic in order to get quicker approvals to export them to other countries (the US' BATF is especially particular & slow to approve a "nongun"). This would seem to confirm it. I suppose I understand the decision from a business standpoint, but I wish the mfrs. would focus less on profits & quick-to-market strategies & build finer models.

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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Fight Designer on Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:04 pm

Claymore, you call the MP5K 'cheap'? Here in the US it's a good $200 or so more than the Asi or Jackal models, and damned if I can tell why.

Granted, the US dollar just isn't what it used to be...
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  claymore on Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:54 pm

when they were on sale here you could get a package of mp5 2 mags and 50 rounds for 250 about $500 ish these days which for us is cheap as getting hold of blank firers became very hard and even brunis could go for nearly 200 or more at times so yes for use it was cheap especially as it was full auto, the full auto part alone i thought would mean it would cost big bucks over here. The UK is bloody expensive these days so for me it was a cheap buy.

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...and A NEW ONE!

Post  Fight Designer on Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:50 pm

First I've heard of this company, and I've no idea if and when they'd be available in the US... but it's a nice to see more players in the market:
Youtube video of firing

...and another

Video slideshow of features

Anybody heard anything about this?
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  pitfighter on Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:37 pm

I wonder if there's a clause that forbids these guys from making a select fire blank pistol that actually resembles a real one.
I would buy in a heart beat:
A good replica of:
a Mac 11, a STAR 1911 with shoulder stock, a Mauser broomhandle 712 select-fire, a Glock 18C, a Beretta in true 93r configuration not complicated, or most assuredly a Stetchkin style pistol.

These chunky toy gun things just don't work for movies, they look fake, and right now, with real war footage so available, and computer games giving such detail, you just can't get away with their products, people know the difference, especially the people that pay to go see action movies.
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Rick on Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:47 am

At this point, Schoessler's seems to be the one mfr. dedicated to making realistic bfg's/bfong's; however their choices are limited and their ammo is a proprietary 9.3mm (it is cheaper than 9mm PAK, though).
PFC guns have the realism in appearance, but somewhat less in performance...

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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Fight Designer on Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:29 am

Depends on the genre- that new one I just posted would work fine for something like Aeon Flux, Ultra Violet, Equilibrium, Firefly/Serenety... just need a dash of sci-fi and you can get away with any of these.

Granted, when you can't get 'em in front-venting models it's a moot point, since that top vent flash is a dead giveaway. I do wish there were at least a better way to justify it- vent out the top of a mock compensator or something, where at least it'd make some sense to have some flash.
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  pitfighter on Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:34 pm

You're right Kevin, sci-fi ready, props.

A more traditional model would just seem more viable, as a product, but hey, what do I know, I don't seem to be able to sell anything, ever?

PS. The jackal is an easy enough fix in the venting department. I couldn't do it at home, but in the machine shop it was completed in less than a day. Still BFONG, of course, just flash goes in the correct direction.
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Fight Designer on Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:38 pm

So did you end up making a new barrel or just drill out the front and plug up the hole (presumably by threading the hole and putting a bolt in or something)?

I'd be very curious about this... and if you'd do mod-jobs for us.

Seems like the extended barrel you get in the "Asi" version could be swapped out with one in a Jackal, and then with the addition of the front folding grip stolen off an airsoft model you could have a passable M93r...
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  pitfighter on Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:30 pm

I'm not inclined mechanically, I got the initial idea from the mp40 forum, where Mark talked about replacing a broken M4 barrel, and I had a guy who specializing in prop making do the work.

I'll let you know how mine holds up, we're working it next month.


Last edited by on Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Fight Designer on Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:37 am

Interesting.

Was the barrel re-attachment a weld job, threaded, something else?

At least that joint shouldn't have to take too much stress, just vibration/shock.

My main safety concern would be whatever was used to plug those top-vent holes coming lose and becoming a projectile. I've got one of those cheaply made 8mm desert eagles where the vent hole has been gradually becoming bigger and bigger, as the sides get 'eroded' away. Makes me worry that something screwed in there might give way too.
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  pitfighter on Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:02 pm

Kevin, let's do this as a PM for the time being.
I'm not positive it's the way you want your board going.
There are a myriad of ways this kind of info. could be used incorrectly.
You and I are completely law abiding, but publishing the info. may lay you open to future problems.
I was skirting around how the work is done on purpose, I suggest discussion on cosmetic modification and leaving it there.
Hope this is taken the correct way, with greatest respect to you.

Jesse.
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Fight Designer on Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:19 am

Yeah, you're probably right...
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Rick on Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:39 am

Could there be a happy medium? I'm interested in legal mods I can do as a collector, especially anything that will allow forward venting, as there's nothing like a great muzzle flash. It seems like the infamous blaze-orange-plug law prohibits this kind of mod, but on the other hand, reenactors (registration necessary?) can get open barrel models.
I do have an C&R FFL for what it's worth...

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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Fight Designer on Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:13 am

There are exceptions to the orange muzzle rule if you're only using them for theatre or film props... ebay and places like that want to cover their bases of course, and so try to require it of everyone.

Besides, there's plenty of airsoft guns out there (as in TONS of airsoft guns out there) that fire things out the barrel and have orange painted barrels or muzzles.

My (limited) understanding of it is that the sticking point for the BATF is that many of the forward-venting blank guns manufactured in Europe have threaded barrels and are often packaged with an attachment that you can use to fire flares, fireworks, rubber bullets, or even tear gas paintball things using the blank as propellant. Granted, this makes it effectively a muzzleloader, and as I'm sure you know, you can ship those UPS without an FFL, buy them online, own then, have replicas without orange barrels, etc... but since it uses a cartridge and magazine, and can concievably be used to fire a projectile using an explosive charge, it checks all the wrong boxes on their paperwork.

That said, I've seen 'em over here, and I know they can be legal. Maybe if they didn't have threaded barrels and attachments they'd have an easier time importing to the US?
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another new model

Post  claymore on Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:08 pm

Another new model from blow/voltran and it looks the nuts, if it fires as well as the 92 its a must have, of course i cannot have one unless i have it painted green or orange! Seriously though this really does look good but then so did the mp5 which it would of course as the pic was of the real thing. So i hope this is a pic of the actual model and not a real pic advertising what is to come. Fingers crossed!


http://www.muslusilah.com/uzi.htm

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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Fight Designer on Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:15 pm

Nice. This looks like the real deal, in that it doesn't quite look like a picture of a real uzi either. You see that "SWAT" model there? Boy, that one's an ugly beast!
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  pitfighter on Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:43 pm

Contact Kimbo (pm) on the other board that most of us visit.
He is having a clear out.

On the subject of sourcing forward venting BFOG's, 8&9mmPAK.

Very nice guy have bought from him and recommend.

JJ.
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  pitfighter on Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:32 pm

Jackal did about 400 rounds in a very short period, using two of the new 25 round mags, no jams and the replica seems in good shape still, we were all pretty impressed.
Was covered with blood and cleaned off three times and still cycled like clockwork.
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  claymore on Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:48 pm

been looking at the uzi i thought wa coming out as a 9mm blank firer abd they have it listed as a 6mm which suggests to me its a co2 model, drat!!

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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Rick on Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:12 am

I saw that too - a recent addition, I think. That's too bad; I thought they were going to release an accurate repro in blank-fire.

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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Fight Designer on Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:53 am

They have semi-auto nail guns in .22, right? (Search under 'Powder Actuated')
So why can't they have semi-auto or even full out blank guns in .22?
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

Post  Fight Designer on Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:45 pm

Ya know another model I'd love to see, which wouldn't be any harder to make than the MP5K, Uzi, or any of these others... is the VZ61 Scorpion. Good compact size, can operate as either a machine pistol or submachine gun, and probably easier to make and get rights to than one of the compact submachineguns by Steyr, Walther, H&K, or other trendier brands.
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Re: Select Fire 9mmPAK models

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